Craig: (00:00)
Again, if you have a personal relationship or can make a personal relationship, you know, that’s where you’re going to get more attention. And, if you’re going to get more attention, then you go with that option every time.

Steve: (00:12)
That’s Craig Snyder. I’m Steve Cleveland. This is Sync Club. We’re talking with Craig Snyder, director of industry relations at ReverbNation. Hey Craig, welcome to the club.

Craig: (00:26)
Hey Steve. Thanks for having me.

Steve: (00:28)
So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your, your background. Um, what got you where you are today?

Craig: (00:33)
Well, you know, I think the music business is something that I kind of saw myself getting into even as a young kid. You know, when I was a kid I was obsessed with liner notes and I had a very limited budget. You know, when I was younger it was basically the number of lawns that I could mow or, you know, chores or babysitting and, you know, take whatever money I could and I would go to the used record store in my hometown of Oxford, Ohio called Looney T Birds. And, you know, literally I gave myself a education in music through the record store. And you know, I think a lot of the things that we talk about today, like, um, music discovery and you know, building a community and finding fans, you know, are all things that can, you know, relate back to then. But, you know, really, I had my first job after college producing radio on Sirius XM. I met Little Steven Van Zandt from Bruce Springsteen’s band and kind of happenstance through friend of a friend. And they were looking to hire someone that knew Pro Tools. And, you know, I happened to be in a band a couple of years before and decided to learn Pro Tools and, uh, never thought that would really, you know, be useful for anything other than, you know, my home recording projects. And lo and behold, you know, I ended up producing audio, you know, and it’s pretty, pretty funny because it was essentially producing podcasts. You know, just throughout my career, I’ve done a variety of things. I’m, I’m someone that is very fascinated by how people consume music and how they discover it. And it certainly had a lot of time with radio, but you know, it’s taken me down this road of, you know, working with bands as a manager and starting record labels and you know, working in publishing and working at an agency and understanding that connection between brands and bands. So it’s something that, uh, all started from Looney T Birds in Oxford, Ohio though.

Steve: (02:57)
Yeah. It’s fun how that, that you have that connection that it just kind of…

Craig: (03:01)
Yeah

Steve: (03:02)
And I, I love that, that you basically gave yourself an education through liner notes. I mean, I have another friend who kind of claims the same kind of thing where this guy is just an amazing session drummer and he could, like if you, you mention a record and he can tell you like all these facts about that record just because he had that vinyl at one point. And uh, he read and memorized these notes and it was just, you know, and I think at least for part of the digital revolution in music, I think that’s something that we kind of lost there for a while. I really miss the liner notes. I used to love just like reading, you know, what like sometimes there was like just something hidden in there, like a quote or something, you know? Brilliant. Or you know, like on the Cure’s Disintegration album, it says this record was mixed to play, to be played loud or something to that effect. And you know, it’s just like little gems like that. I kind of miss that with some of the digital things that either I’m not looking in the right place or it doesn’t exist.

Craig: (04:04)
Yeah. Well, and you know, at the time, you know, if you were a fan, you could actually write to the, your favorite artists cause most of them would, you know, put a P O box or an address.

Steve: (04:13)
That’s right.

Craig: (04:14)
So, you know, it was for me, if I wanted to know how, you know, John Curley got a guitar sound on an Afghan Whigs record, I could write him and he would respond.

Steve: (04:27)
Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. So Sync Club is all about helping independent artists and songwriters understand the world of sync licensing. And one of the common threads that our guests have brought to the table in one way or another is like this concept of collaboration or building a team. And so, um, we had Randy Chertkow on one of the earlier episodes and he’s one of the authors of Making Money with Music. And he talked about do it yourself, doesn’t mean do it alone.

Craig: (05:02)
Yep.

Steve: (05:02)
So it seems like some of the work that you do currently is like helping artists build a team. Is that something that you can speak to specifically with regards to like sync placements or,

Craig: (05:15)
Yeah, sure. So, I mean, when you’re talking about an artist’s team, you’re typically talking about, um, a manager, an agent, a label, a publisher, a PRO, and you know, there’s a business manager, a lot of other people along the way. You know, as I see, uh, yeah, the easiest way to build a name and to actually start making money as an artist, it’s absolutely sync. The reality that most artists don’t understand is that you can find a lot of, a lot of folks to actually pitch your music and you may not get a big fat advance, but you know, you’re not going to worry signing at crazy longterm exclusive deal. Um, and you know, you’re able to, you know, have someone actively shop the songs you’re writing. And, you know, I think when you’re looking at building a team, the thing that I always tell artists is really, you know, it’s, it’s about, you know, finding someone that understands what you’re doing. Understands where you’re coming from. You know, I, I can’t tell you how many artists will go hire the most expensive publicist. They’ll try to, you know, just get themselves in like a big name publishing catalog.

Steve: (06:33)
Yeah.

Craig: (06:33)
But oftentimes like that boutique person can understand where you’re coming from and really is going to take time and actually listen to your songs. Especially when you’re creating new songs, you know, that’s, that’s the person that’s actually going to have success in a placement. You know, I think not enough artists are trying to find like a good fit as opposed to just finding any fit.

Steve: (06:55)
Well, yeah. You know, and I…you know, one of my fears would be to sign with somebody who was, um, who had maybe like a huge catalog and you’re just, you know, you get overlooked or…

Craig: (07:10)
Sure.

Steve: (07:10)
…you’re on, on a roster with bands that are the, you know, the “it” bands or whatever. So it’s like finding that right fit. And do you have any suggestions on how to go about finding somebody who can pitch your music where somebody might look?

Craig: (07:24)
Yeah. So this is the answer I give for most everything for a young band getting involved in the music industry. But you know, for any artist that’s looking to find a publisher or you know. Typically the two things I hear artists ask about the most is, um, how do I get a like good syncs and how do I get that opening slot on a tour? And the answer is the same. Um, and the question I always ask there is, you know, who are you friends with? You know, what are the bands that are one step ahead of you that are coming from your scene? Because most likely if someone likes that band, that kind of sounds like your band or that artist that sounds like your music, they’re probably also going to like your music. And you can also get a warm intro from your friend’s band. And you know, quite honestly, you know, we live in a time where there are more artists than ever creating more music than ever. Ah, has, you know, been out in the marketplace and it’s about getting attention. And if you have someone that can create a warm intro for you, you got to do that every time.

Steve: (08:33)
Yeah it seems like I just read somewhere, oh yeah. On your blog, Craig says, um, that you estimate about a million songs a month are being added to the streaming services.

Craig: (08:46)
Yep. And that, that’s probably a very conservative estimate.

Steve: (08:50)
So, yeah. So it’s really, and it seems like this is kind of a reoccurring idea. It’s about building relationships and about networking and kind of like, as other people succeed, you succeed with them, so you kind of grow as a group.

Craig: (09:06)
Yeah. I mean, I think if you look at any music scene from the past, you know, 50 years, 60 years. You know bands, artists grow together. You know, I look at the New York scene that I was part of when I first moved there in the early two thousands, but yeah, you go see The Strokes and then there was this little band called the Yeah Yeah Yeahs that was opening for them. Or you’d come to a listening party and you’d realize that the bartender was in The Rapture and you know, it’s like those scenes, they grow, they grow together, you know, because whenever a band like The Strokes get signed or you know, any bands, um, any artist. We live in a world where everyone wants their, their own strokes, they want their own version of that artist. They want to be able to, you know, capitalize on that. So yeah. So I think it’s really like building a scene, making friends, building those relationships.

Steve: (10:07)
That is a really super good advice actually. It’s, it’s funny, we interviewed Ted Hudson, who was also from New York and he mentioned The Strokes and he mentioned, you know, that was like a really good time to be in New York because that scene was really, really hot because of The Strokes, kind of is what he, uh, basically said. And his band got signed in and did some cool things.

Craig: (10:35)
Yeah. What band was he in?

Steve: (10:37)
He was in The Damnwells.

Craig: (10:41)
Oh, right, right cool!

Steve: (10:42)
Cool band and, um, they’re still around and stuff. If you like theirr music, you should definitely go back and listen to what he’s up to now. So he’s a fascinating guy. Just super nice. So on that theme of building teams, um, you’d mentioned a publisher and that’s something that I think a lot of people are maybe either misinformed about or don’t fully understand. So when, when does a band or an artist or somebody who’s interested, at what point do they need a publisher? Or,

Craig: (11:16)
Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I would say that the first stop for any artist should be signing up with a PRO. So I think a lot of artists don’t really understand some of the mechanics behind that, how they can get paid. But ultimately, and I’m sure you’d touched on this in other podcasts, but ultimately there are…you know, artists get paid for composition of a song and, you know, the person that owns the recording gets paid as well. And really what a publisher does is it represents the songwriter. You know, PROs are actually out there to, to kinda automatically collect a lot of those, a lot of those royalties for non-interactive listens, which would be, you know, just things like digital radio play and you know, having your music played in a Jimmy Buffet, Margaritaville restaurant, which I’m not endorsing by the way. But you know, really, uh, when I look at artists and I look at they’re trying to build a team, definitely sign up with a PRO. We’ve got really two big options, in the US and then, you know, a third pretty good more boutique option in SESAC. So you have ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. And you know, I would say, again, if you have a personal relationship or can make a personal relationship at one of them, you know, that’s where you’re gonna get more attention. And if you’re going to get more attention, then you go with that option every time. Cause they’re basically, you know, collecting the same money for you. But as I look at, you know, the right time to bring on a publisher, you know what I would say is you probably have to have music out in the marketplace for a publisher to actually want to work with you.

Steve: (13:05)
Okay.

Craig: (13:07)
That would be how most publishers want to sign. You know, if you go to Nashville, that’s more of a songwriting engine and you’re just trying to pitch your songs for, you know, bigger artists to, you know, perform them. You know, then maybe you want to be coordinating a publisher earlier. But you know, if you’re a performing artist, which I would say is the mass majority of artists that I work with, especially at ReverbNation, you know, wait until you have music out in the marketplace or you’re about to have it out in the marketplace because ultimately publishers want to hear what you’re working with.

Steve: (13:44)
Okay.

Craig: (13:45)
Ideally you’ve had a little success too, so that way you have a way to differentiate your music from, you know, a million other tracks that came out that month.

Steve: (13:54)
Right.

Craig: (13:56)
And it doesn’t have to be big things, but you know, again, you know who is someone friends with, who does someone trust? You know, I think music journalists like, you know, if you’re able to get covered by the right journalist and oh, this person that works at, you know, Downtown Music happens to see their favorite journalists is covering this artist and is Arabian about them, then you know that that’s a good opportunity to open that door.

Steve: (14:20)
Right.

Craig: (14:22)
But you know, I would also say with publishers there are a lot of, you know, big libraries where basically they are willing to represent you either exclusively for a short period of time or not exclusively. And you know, the thing I tell emerging artists is, you know, do not exclusive all day. You know, someone wants to represent you, not exclusively sign a bunch of them. You know.

Steve: (14:46)
I’ve often wondered that, you know. What is the advantage other than maybe just a few percentage points to being exclusive? I mean, is there any that you would go, yeah, there’s a point where you should be exclusive?

Craig: (15:01)
Yeah. I would say, um, if someone’s having considerable success with your catalog. Like let’s say you have like three non-exclusive, you know, sync deals and one person’s really having a lot of success and is really, you know, putting that best foot forward to shop your catalog, that might be a reason to go exclusive, to further incentivize them to continue to pitching your catalog and know that they’re not going to potentially have three people pitching the same music supervisor on the same song. You know. Certainly if a publisher is willing to give you an advance, you know, they’re paying for that exclusivity. You know, I think it really comes down to, you know, having trust or, understanding where someone’s really gonna work your, your music hard. And you know, a lot of exclusive deals you can get out of them in 60 or 90 days. So if you trust someone and you feel like they understand your music, that’s another reason to go exclusive. But you know, certainly if you’re not seeing the results that you want, then you know, it’s probably an opportunity to have a good conversation.

Steve: (16:10)
Okay. Okay. What piece of advice would you give someone looking to break into sync licensing?

Craig: (16:19)
Well, there are probably a couple answers, but um, the one thing I would say with breaking into sync licensing is just be very, very organized. Make it easy for people to pitch your music. You know, one thing that I think is important is having your lyrics together, having it be really easy to understand, you know, co-writers, having instrumental files. You know, just having everything that makes it so easy that someone wants to, time and time again, you know, pitch your music because you know, often times for young bands they’re getting that 25th hour call where they need something that sounds like a much more expensive artist and maybe you have that solution but they need it really, really quick.

Steve: (17:09)
Sure, I mean that seems like the whole thing is just being able to move quickly in that space because it seems like they’re always behind or right up against a deadline.

Craig: (17:20)
Yep.

Steve: (17:20)
And by the way, your answer is way better answer than my answer. So I love it.

Craig: (17:23)
What is your answer? I’m curious, actually.

Steve: (17:25)
It seems like the one thing is just building relationships, you know. It seems like that’s the one thing in sync, is getting, you know, getting in good with some folks, you know, building a network of people that like your music and like you and see that, you know, you are responsive and organized, but I liked your answer a lot better. So.

Craig: (17:46)
(laughter) Well you have a very good answer too. I mean it is a relationship business and I think even with faceless pop stars that are charting on Soundcloud, it still comes down to who you know.

Steve: (17:59)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, reading on your linkedin page and your blog, you mentioned this term that kind of intrigued me because I’m not exactly sure what it means. You bring up this thing called transactional marketing. And just out of curiosity, what is that? Because it seems like I should know that.

Craig: (18:23)
Uh, yeah, so I would say we, we’ve kind of gotten into this period where we evaluate the success of a song launch or a campaign through the number of lights that you get on social media. You know, we are…you know, basically advertisers are paying for certain CPMs where basically they want to pay 15 bucks for a thousand impressions. When I say transactional marketing, I’m talking about exactly this where you’re trying to, you know, build the transaction and then move onto the next one. You know, it’s like, it’s like banking. It’s really kinda not very exciting to me. And what I like to see with marketing is having, you know, more personal touch and being humid and you’re getting out of this mode of just basically, you know, posting, cause you have the post. The reality is like transactional marketing doesn’t feel authentic. It doesn’t feel good to the artist. And I think, you know, certainly fans see through it. So, you know, why are we doing transactional marketing if it doesn’t feel good for the fan and it doesn’t feel good for your own music? So, you know, I think that’s something I’m constantly challenging.

Steve: (19:43)
People don’t like to be, you know, BS’ed, I guess.

Craig: (19:47)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean you hate when you get robo-calls. I mean, that’s essentially what you’re doing to fans when you’re just, you know, and, and believe me, I get that we have to do this. You know, because ultimately if you’re an artist and you’re on the road, you need people to show up to your show to buy tickets. That way you can pay for gas and eat, you know, sleep in a hotel as opposed to a van. Um, so, you know, I get there is a certain level of paying per some impressions, but you know, I think it’s really like you can’t just do what everyone else is doing and that isn’t working. You know, you got to figure out a voice and a reason that people are gonna you know, pay attention to what you’re typing, you know, on your phone.

Steve: (20:35)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So, kind of related topic, you know, you’ve, uh, had the opportunity to work with some major brands. Could you give us some insight on what it’s like to work with some of these major brands and maybe what these relationships are like and how licensing for a brand experience is different from maybe licensing for sync?

Craig: (20:57)
Yeah, so the thing I would say with brands is, um, there’s a right way to approach brands and there’s a lot of wrong ways to do it. And um, you know, I think the brand deal is very much like a sync. It’s something that a lot of artists aspire to be, which is really funny to me cause I remember you know, in the 80s hearing Mick Jones from The Clash talk about there are Pepsi artists and then there’s everyone else. Um, so.

Steve: (21:28)
Used to be a sell out kind of notion, right?

Craig: (21:29)
Totally, totally. Working with brands, was selling out. Now it’s, um, it’s anything, but. You know, and I feel like that millennial generation, they love a good brand collaboration. So, you know, my biggest advice to artists especially, uh, those just getting started that may not be represented by a label or a publisher or someone that can really have those relationships already intact, is to just understand how brands typically work. Some brands will have in house music people. Those people oftentimes will make themselves very, very open. They want to talk to artists. You know, I’ve given an example like Red Bull. You know, Red Bull is doing a lot with theirr music academy and they’re, um, there are people that want to speak to that emerging tier of artists. And then you have, you know, a lot of your, your more traditional CPGs, consumer packaged goods. And food brands, food and bev. And those kind of more traditional brands, they, um, they hire an agency because guess what? They don’t, they don’t want to have that, that personal touch. They want to bring in someone that is an expert.

Steve: (22:48)
Sure.

Craig: (22:49)
And you know, I would say I, I see lots of artists, you know, tweeting at brands and, it’s probably a waste of their time. You know, again, it’s gonna come down to your relationships. You know, again, it is really about understanding who’s working with that brand. And you know, the artists that I’ve worked with that have gotten it, you know, are, you know, artists that not only look at what they need, which is often money and exposure, but they also really try to succinctly understand what a brand is trying to achieve. You know, I can give you a perfect example if that helps.

Steve: (23:28)
Yeah, that’d be great.

Craig: (23:30)
Yeah. Um, so I worked with a candy brand called Mamba. You can think of them as like a German Starburst. We did a couple of years of music programming for them where we were basically bringing in to help market their product. And one of the years we decided we wanted to do something where we could use the candy to create art, create music, and that could be physically, that could be whatever way that the artist wanted to interpret it. And we had a great artist called Slow Magic, EDM artist, actually from Denver. And, um, you know, when we worked with Slow Magic, you know, he really came to the table and wanted to understand, well, what is the brand really looking for? Oh, okay. Well they want me to create something that’s different and unique and they want to be able to touch on some of the brand goals of creativity. And, you know, with, with Slow Magic, we basically gave him money to create a mini controller that he, uh, he built out a Mamba candy and basically programmed each piece of each flavor of the candy with the sound and created a, you know, all the sounds from scratch, you know, wrappers crumpling up, uh, chewing, uh, throwing the candy, you know, at a window and basically created this really cool custom song. And, uh, it felt authentic to the artists. It felt authentic to the brand. You know, the response was amazing. It actually got picked up by Nerdist, um, the videos that it was so successful that we ended up going back to Slow Magic and saying, what else can you create? And he said, well, I need to build some new drum pads. What if I built them using your candy? And again, you know, gave him some cash. It felt authentic to the artist, it felt authentic to the brand, created some content. And you know, when you have, you know, something that works for both sides, you often will achieve the goals that you want. Which, you know, with this, with brands, they are very transactional. They are trying to grow an audience. They are basing in a lot of success on metrics, on impressions. But you know, we did something authentic and we achieved that very easily. Which I can’t say for every brand campaign that I’ve, I’ve worked on.

Steve: (26:08)
I mean, that’s like, that’s a very, very good example of, you know, win-win for the artist and brand. Um, so, you know, even on smaller scale things like Youtube campaigns, it’s like one of those things where you probably still have to go through an agency to get to some of these brands. Would you agree to that?

Craig: (26:29)
Uh, yes and no. You know, I think a lot of artists are really focused on big brands. But again, I would tell artists like, look, look locally. You know, uh, Floyd’s Barbershop in Nashville does a lot of really good, you know, local campaigns that end up, you know, going national. I remember when Chris Shiflett from the Foo Fighters was just starting his podcast. Um, I think Floyd’s was his first sponsor and he might’ve even just been trading haircuts for, uh, for, um, you know, a slot on his podcast. But, you know, there are probably brands that are local to you that if you’d come to them with an idea and you tell them what you’re looking for and ask them what they’re looking for, you can probably find that brand. And, you know, I would say, look at the exploding brewery space with beers and ciders. You know, there are so many brands that are, you know, can have a budget of couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars and maybe could support a tour or a paid for, you know, placement in a music video.

Steve: (27:36)
Rightt. That’s, you know, the kind of thinking that, you know, I think everything starts small, doesn’t it?

Craig: (27:42)
It does. Yeah. Start small, start local. If you have success, small and local, you know, that’s the kind of thing you bring to someone that’s a little bit bigger. You know, it’s like the old school music industry. You started with a single, if you had enough good singles, you got an EP. If you had enough good songs, you know, after your EP, guess what, you were given an album.

Steve: (28:05)
I guess the age of the Internet has kind of twisted everybody a little bit where they- it’s easy to get to thinking large. But um, you know, the Internet still works well locally.

Craig: (28:17)
Yeah. And I mean on the sync space, I mean, I’ve done sync deals with artists where…there’s a band that I manage where they had a song that, they have Christmas song and a local company wanted to use that song in their e-greeting. Wish, you know, all their employees and partners a happy holiday. And yeah, it was at $2,000 a sync that we gave them. You know, it was just a video and they used this Christmas song from the band I managed the Howlies. And you know, that 2000 bucks, you know, that paid for some barbecue and some sandwiches and paid to fix their van, which, um, yeah two grand is not a huge number even for a local brand.

Steve: (29:06)
But it can really make a difference for a local artist or for any artist, you know, that starting out. Yeah. I mean that’s…

Craig: (29:12)
Absolutely

Steve: (29:14)
…that’s real currency. That spends. Um, well that’s great. Uh, so tell me what are you up to? Is there anything that you’re doing that you’d like to share?

Craig: (29:25)
Yeah, sure. So I should probably talk a little bit abou my role at ReverbNation where I’m working on our artist development team. But ultimately, you know, we have 5 million artists on the platform and we’re continuing to grow pretty rapidly. And, and really with ReverbNation, we are really focused on helping artists develop their career and providing opportunities for artists to take those next steps. So, you know, we have the opportunities section of our site where artists can submit to basically be considered for festivals and record labels and publishers and all of that jazz. Um, so, you know, what I would say is we have usually 160 opportunities running at any given moment. Um, so you know, there are certainly opportunities for artists to get discovered on our platform. And you know, I think one thing with submissions that a lot of artists think is, um, well no one, no one actually listens to those. And the thing that you know, I’d love to share is, you know, we actually have a curation team that’s 32 curators and they’re from the music industry. And we recognize that bigger brand names like a Bonnaroo or Pepsi or, you know, someone like that or even radio, you know, they don’t have the time to listen to tens of thousands of artists. But we do. And what we can do is really understand, you know, what someone like Bonnaroo or Pepsi or a record label like Atlantic or Fierce Panda is looking for. And we can make targeted recommendations and you know, your music may, you know, be an exact fit or it may not. So, but what I would say is, um, our curation team is actually listening to every single artist that submits to one of our opportunities. And when we find the right opportunity, assuming you submit and we see you pop up, you know, we would love to make a recommendation to help connect the right artists with the right opportunity.

Steve: (31:37)
Yeah. I mean I can, I can attest to that I, like in the last year I haven’t been putting out as much music as I’d like, but um, I did use the feedback tool that you guys offer.

Craig: (31:49)
Yeah.

Steve: (31:50)
And that’s just really invaluable feedback. I mean, you’re, you’re getting some real, you know, first off, the people are real, that are listening to it and you know, and they’re giving you their thoughts. And by and large it’s, it’s great feedback. But I did also, after just submitting to that, I got an email from one of the curators saying, hey, we like the song, we’re gonna look at you guys closer. And you know, we never heard anything back after that because we have so little content up on ReverbNation right now.

Craig: (32:17)
Sure.

Steve: (32:17)
But, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things where, um, yeah, you guys really do, I mean, somebody is working really hard because for somebody just to take the time to say, hey, we like this, we’re going to check this out further. It’s encouraging when you get that. And it’s also just nice to know that it’s not just you guys are just some technology company that’s, you know, needs content flowing through there for your lifeblood, but it actually means something.

Craig: (32:44)
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, for us, I’m glad you mentioned the feedback tool. You know, we have a variety of tools that we’re developing. You know, we have a tool called Promote It where, um, you know, rather than you guessing at, you know, the rate geographic demographic three you to, you know, spend money for Facebook advertising or you know, to get yourself banner space on sites like the Fader we have Promote It, which will basically really understand the style music that you’re playing and, and help optimize that and make sure that you’re getting your money’s worth. You know, and we have distribution and you know, we have a variety of other ways that artists can use our platform and help connect with the industry. And by the way, I would tell you with your music, you know, the fact that a curator reached out and that’s not abnormal. You know, the one thing I tell artists all the time is, um, and this goes not only for ReverbNation, but you know, we live in a time where music is utility. Uh, so you need to treat your music like a utility and don’t put it all out at once if you only have five songs. You know, roll it out slowly. We have a lot of algorithms that will trigger based on updates to profiles. Um, so what I tell artists is constantly be updating, like updating your, your Facebook or anything else. You know, I’m not talking about posts, but I’m talking about, you know, post a new picture, post a new song. Sync your account with Bandsintown so that way we can see when you have new tour dates.

Steve: (34:18)
Sure.

Craig: (34:19)
Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing I would tell you, uh, about what I’m working on is, uh, over the past stop past three years, I’ve been starting to dive into the podcast space as well. You know, I’ve got a, a couple in development, but you know, certainly got a podcast that I work on with Andrew Loog Oldham, the original producer of the Rolling Stones, producer and manager of the Rolling Stones called Sounds and Vision. And we’re treating, each episode is kind of a masterclass from someone Andrew’s met along the way. So you can get photography advice from Mick Rock who shot all the famous images of David Bowie and Freddie Mercury and Queen and Syd Barrett. You know, we have an episode with Danny Goldberg who managed Nirvana and manages Steve Earle, and he shares lots of, uh, stories from the road. You know, we have an episode with Rob Schwartz who is the CEO of TBWA\Chiat\Day which is a huge ad agency and he really breaks down, you know, how he and Andrew have both used music for marketing. That would be one thing I’d love for people to check out that podcast. And you know, II’ve got a couple of others I’m working on too. I do a podcast called the Outposts from the Burbs, which is a folk series from Montclair, New Jersey. And that’s, um, more just an interview and a live performance. And the first season had everyone from Richard Thompson to Riley Walker, a young emerging artist in that space. You know, also I produce a podcast for my wife called Le vital corps Salon, which is conversations between my wife Kara and other type-A women not letting BS or burnout stop them. So she’s spoken to everyone from astronauts to climate scientists to the first woman to race in the Kentucky Derby. And there’s a lot of lessons that can be taken away from those episodes as well.

Steve: (36:24)
Absolutely. It’s very well produced material and content.

Craig: (36:29)
Thank you.

Steve: (36:30)
Yeah. Don’t forget to mention your, uh, your freshly minted blog.

Craig: (36:36)
Yeah. So I, um, I’m trying to put more of my ideas out into the world and if you go to, um, Craigsays.blog and see a couple of posts up there, I’m probably not going to be posting weekly, but you know, definitely see a couple posts each month. I mean, you can also follow me on Medium, um, where I’m going to be sharing select pieces of those blogs. And you know, certainly we’ll be advertising them on all of my social media, which I’m sure you’ll include somewhere in the show notes.

Steve: (37:08)
Yeah. Thank you so much, Craig. This is, this is great.

Craig: (37:11)
Yeah. Thanks for creating this and I’m excited to see how this grows for you and how we can educate artists about how to make some money with their music.

Steve: (37:21)
Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s the end goal. That’s it. This is Steve Cleveland and you’ve been listening to Sync Club. If you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you check out our show notes where you can find additional information and links regarding our guest. Hey, let us know what you’d like to hear about. You can do so by hitting us up at Twitter, username syncclubpodcast. Thanks for the hang. We’ll see you here next week at the club.